Welcome back to Season 1, Episode 7 of the Convene Podcast. This week, Brad Dacus returns to share some key insights about the interplay between Christian faith and the laws of our nation. He discusses how leaders of a Christian company can build a faith-friendly culture that does not discriminate against people because of their religion. Brad breaks down how executives can genuinely live out their faith at the workplace instead of putting on a disguise until Sunday.
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Can I Be A Christian Company? Feat. Brad Dacus
We’re here with Brad Dacus. Brad, thanks for coming. We’re talking about creating a faith friendly culture at your company. Brad, you Founded Pacific Justice Institute in 1997. That seems like a while ago. You’ve been defending religious freedom without costs for a long time. You’ve been heard on radio stations and television stations across the country. Those guys that we all wish we were on their show, O’Reilly, the Today Show, MSNBC, Dateline NBC, CNN. That’s awesome. Way to go.
We do a lot of work, and in 2024, when we handled roughly 4,000 requests for assistance, defending religious freedom and parents’ rights. Occasionally, the media like to pick them up and cover a few. We’re very blessed.
We’re here to talk to CEOs, men and women who run companies, and they might be out there reading this, saying, “I’m really glad I stumbled upon this show because I feel shackled at my company. I feel like I can’t do what I want to do. I feel like my faith is for Sunday, but my company is for Monday to Friday, and the two don’t meet because I don’t want to go to jail.” We’re going to talk about Christianity and culture and how we can bridge the gap when. The culture has parted ways with our faith. Does that sound good?
That sounds great.
Manifesting Faith Through Products And Services
How about if we start with a little example? Is that okay?
Sure.
I love what Buck Knives does. There’s a big box of this, but I’m going to use this little company. Buck Knives has been making knives since 1902, the best knives in the world. There’s this little thing inside every box, and it’s a little piece of paper. You get a Buck knife, this is what it says. “Each knife has to reflect the integrity of management. If sometimes we fail, it’s because we’re human. If anybody who’s reading this is troubled or perplexed and looking for answers, can we invite you to look to God? He loves you. Signed Chuck Buck, Chairman and Owner of Buck Knives.” On the bottom, it has a Bible verse and it says, “Don’t forget, your knife is warrantied forever.” Is that okay?
Yes, it is okay. In fact, many employers don’t realize this. Manufacturers don’t realize that they can manifest their faith as they wish on their products. In-N-Out Burger is another classic example. You’ll see a Bible verse on the bottom part of their cups, their materials. You’ll see a little Bible verses. That’s totally legal.
Another example is an owner of a dairy company. I was driving, going up the freeway, and I see this large dairy vehicle. On there is big, bold John 3:16. They’re protected to do that. They don’t have to be ashamed of that. The bottom line is they can manifest their faith with their products. By the way, the customer can decide not to buy the product. That’s where the issue is. There are so many employers out there who want to manifest their faith in their products, and they’re totally free to do so.
Funny story. I had a dentist take out some wisdom teeth when I was young. I got a letter from the dentist about a couple of weeks later, and I don’t think he was trying to be funny. We obviously didn’t get a chance to talk when you came in. I was out cold. It said, “I’d like to share the most important thing in my life, and it’s my relationship with Jesus Christ.” I thought, “That is incredible.” Is that okay?
Yes, it’s totally okay. That’s a service industry, mind you. Many Americans are in service industries. They’re not producing products. That’s one way that they can manifest their faith in the service industry. Mind you, they have to be careful not to discriminate against their customers because the customers may have a different faith or a different lifestyle.
What would that look like if you got it wrong?
Let’s say for example they provide something to a customer, and the customer says, “I have different religious beliefs.” The proper way to respond is say, “I respect that.” They say, “Do you not want to do business with me?” “No, I totally respect that. This is my faith and I manifested my business.” As long as they’re respectful and tolerant of employees or customers particularly who believe differently, there’s no problem.
If they say, “You don’t believe in what I believe, then I’m not going to provide you these services.” That’s a real problem.” The reality is, in all the years that I’ve been in doing this and engaged in defending religious freedom, we haven’t had one single case matter like that. Christians want to share their faith. They don’t want to blow up bridges. They want to build bridges. That really is not a problem, practically speaking.
Serving The Community With Your Employees
What other good ideas might you have seen in the years you’ve been at this of people who use their company platform as a vehicle to say what they believe?
Another way is actually serving their community with their employees. You’re saying, “How does that work?” A specific example was in Orange County. There’s a company that one day a month, they have their employees go out and spend time serving charities, participating in charities. Mind you, the employer has a right to say which charities they want their employees to participate. They can say, “I want you to do the Salvation Army,” or they can choose 2 or 3 charities. They can be Christian Charities with Christian themes.
If an employee, however, says, “I’m a different faith. I like what you’re trying to do, but this is a Christian-based charity. I want to participate,” then the employer has an obligation under Title VII to reasonably accommodate the sincerely how religious beliefs of their employees. They need to say, “If this violates your faith, no problem. You can stay and work in the office and continue your regular work. You don’t have to participate.” As long as that accommodation is there, employers can actually have their employees made available to serve the community in a very positive way.
As long as the accommodation of faith is there, employers can have their employees made available to serve the community in a positive way. Share on XI remember back in the days I worked for servicemaster, we were $9 billion. One day every year, 90,000 employees helped clean Ronald mcdonald Houses. We cleaned their carpets, cleaned their furniture, washed their windows, cut their grass, killed the pests, polished the leather, polished the brass. Every Ronald mcdonald House in America was cleaner the day after we were done. It didn’t have really a stitch of anything to do with faith, but we all did something for the common good, and it was very positive. It was very fun. The press we got was incredible.
It’s also great for perspective building. Some people say, “Things aren’t going well for me.” When they’re spending time volunteering with a homeless ministry, dealing with people who are really in need, it can be actually a morale booster, an appreciation of gratitude that comes with that service, but it doesn’t have to stop with the United States. Legally, an employer can offer to their employees to fund them to go on short-term mission trips to other countries.
What does that look like?
They team up with a short-term mission organization that does that. They make it available to those employees that they want to make it available to. If employee says, “I don’t want to go. I don’t want to go down to Guatemala for health reasons or for religious reasons. I don’t believe in this ministry.” Fine. What they’ll discover is that many employees, even if they’re not a Christian, will take them up on it.
It can be very impacting when they see what the ministry’s doing that they’re participating in, but also when they see how their other employees and how the management who are participating, how they’re participating and why they’re participating and opens up dialogue and can be very transformational. This is something that, that is there. We at Pacific Justice Institute will be happy to work with any employer if they have any questions about implementing any of these things without charge.
They would just call Pacific Justice Institute and talk to you about their question or problem. I think we have a Convene employer who takes employees who maybe meet a particular criteria that’s a performance thing, and maybe not, I can’t exactly remember, but they do the free wheelchair mission deal. They’re arriving in a foreign country with hundreds of wheelchairs that are made of a garden chair and bicycle tires. The looks on people’s faces when they receive a wheelchair that they were walking, or they were dragging themselves along the ground is incredible. What a life changing thing that would be for an employee, whether they were a Christian or not a Christian.
Many employers say, “We’re going to have do tough team building, and we’re going to go to this retreat, and we’re going to have motivational speakers.” They can do that. They can have some outside speakers from a Christian worldview perspective as well. Having the employees participate in something that is giving and serving can be incredibly transformational and should definitely be considered by Christian employers across America.
How Leaders Should Approach A Union Environment
Brad, we want to talk for a minute about the CEO who is running a union shop, or maybe they have partial union shop in City A and a non-union in City B. Talk to the CEO who’s saying, “What can I do? I have a union environment.”
This is a very well-kept secret, but is extremely powerful for employers to know who have union shops. Under Title VII, Section 701(j), the courts have held that that language requiring reasonable accommodation of employees’ religious beliefs or convictions applies to union workers who do not believe in their unions, whose union supports perhaps issues, causes, or candidates that violate the conscience or religious beliefs of that union worker.”
Even if they’re an atheist, that it violates their values, they’re protected to have every single penny of their union dues, not just their membership part, but all of it, including agency fee, fair share dues, all of it, to never go to that union again, and instead go to a charity or ministry that’s reflective in agreement with their faith.
Only 1 in 1,000 union workers are aware of this. Sometimes when workers approach their union about it, the union will say, “This only applies if you’re Jehovah’s Witness or Seventh Day Adventist or you have to have a letter from your pastor saying that your beliefs of your church require you not to be a part of a union.” That’s baloney. They do that all the time or they’ll say, “You have to choose 1 of these 3 charities and all 3 of them violate your, your faith.” You can’t choose them. You can’t do that as well. We at Pacific Justice Institute actually litigated a case where a union tried to say, “You can give to Planned Parenthood, the ACLU or the LGBT Alliance.”
No, that didn’t work. We litigated. We took care of that. They have to allow you to give to at least one charity that is in accordance with your faith and beliefs and convictions, not disagreeing with your faith and convictions. To make this really easy, Greg, what we did at Pacific Justice Institute is we worked and created a website called ChooseCharity.org. They simply go to that website, they answer the questions, and from start to finish, it’s taken care of without charge for that worker. We make it very easy for the worker. The attorneys who are set up to work with ChooseCharity.org do all the legal work without charge. We make it very easy.
If you’re a Christian CEO or if you’re a Christian employee, you are in a union shop and you’re not happy with the fact that your dues are going to the union for whatever reason, go to ChooseCharity.org and you can make accommodation to send those due somewhere else.
Here’s what an employer specifically can do. They can actually send a letter to all the employees. In fact, they can put it in the paycheck, or they can send an email out to all the employees explaining to the employee of their rights under Title VII to have their faith reasonably accommodated in this way. We have the material on our website. They can use some of the material on our website to formulate that material for that information. We can actually even help compose the letter for them without charge. This is something that every employer who has a union shop should do out of respect for the rights of their employees.
How Faith-Based Companies Can Avoid Lawsuits
If you are a person of faith who leads a company, you want to make sure that you don’t get sued. You want to make sure that if you do, that you win. How do you do that?
First is an employer needs to have a regular employee review with employees every year. No matter how large the company is, that’s very important because if they don’t, and they end up terminating an employee, that employee can later come back and say, “I was fired because of my religion or because of my lifestyle. They disagreed with the morals or beliefs of the employer that’s otherwise protected.” That’s very important. Employer reviews, I can’t stress that enough.
An employer must have a regular employee review every year, no matter how large the company is. Share on XSecond, the employer needs to conduct proper training for religious freedom and harassment in the workplace. All the time, employers have such seminars based on gender, based on race ethnicity or sexual orientation, but they often completely forget to do it for religious tolerance and harassment in the workplace.
That is just as much a part of the civil rights statutes and discrimination provisions under Title VII as are the other groups, and yet it’s ignored. By providing that training upfront, there’s a couple of advantages. Number one, the employer is inoculated, if you will. Employees are inoculated, so that when you do engage in religious things in the workplace, they know that this is something they can sue an employer about.
They’re already instructed about how these are valid things for employers to do, the rights of the employer. That helps prevent disgruntled employees from taking action and helps them have a greater understanding of why this is valid for a private company. The second is it helps protect the employer from lawsuits down the line. If an employee is harassed by, say, a supervisor allegedly because of their faith or their practice, their faith, the employer’s liability is tremendously limited because they took this preemptive measure to prevent religious-based discrimination and harassment in the workplace. Very important.
Third, an employer needs to take immediate corrective actions when an employee crosses the line with another employee. Let’s say you have Joe in the workplace. He’s an on fire Christian and he keeps badgering this other employee who’s not a Christian. He talks to that employee. He says, “Jill, do you want to come to this church event? It’s really great.” Jill says, “No, I’m really not interested.” Joe continues.
Next week, he brings in the bulletin and next week, he brings in a video.
Yeah, and a gospel track and everything else. It’s very clear maybe the first time there’s no reason Joe should know where she’s come from, but after a few times of her saying, “No, I’m not interested,” Joe should get the picture. He should be respectful of that. If he’s not and he’s continuing to the point where it becomes harassment repeatedly, over and over, that employer has an obligation to immediately intervene in the matter and take corrective measures to make sure that Joe ceases and desists from that when it could be harassment of the other employee.
In your example, Jill is the person being harassed by Joe, who’s the Christian. It’s better for Jill to know in advance that she can freely and, in a welcoming way, come to you as the CEO of the company or her supervisor, rather than go to some lawyer’s office and say, “I want to begin proceedings against ABC Metal Company.”
Yeah. An employer should have a process set up right up for the employees so they know what they are to do if they feel that they’re suffering from harassment or discrimination or something like that. There needs to be a process. Usually companies, when they have an HR, that’s the process. They should immediately go to HR and make that complaint known so that the HR, Human Resources, and the company can take corrective measures.
Those are some real basic things that companies can do. Employers, of course, need to be right up front in the hiring of the employee of the Christian nature of the company. The employee has a clear understanding right up front of what they’re getting into, as well as the employer’s commitment not to discriminate or harass employees because of their faith or an ethnicity, gender, or any other protected group that they may be a part of.
Dos And Don’ts Of Hiring In A Christian Company
Can we talk a little bit about hiring?
Yes.
I think this is an area that is maybe fraught with even more fear on the part of some CEOs. Some companies might want to hire people who have a faith position equal to theirs. Is that okay? Some CEOs might not need or want to hire someone whose faith is aligned with theirs. What are some of the dos and don’ts here in this arena of hiring?
For-profit businesses are particularly bound, whether they’re Christian or not, to the discrimination statutes and laws, in both in terms of nationally as well as in various states. States, for example, like California, is broader than the national discrimination statutes dealing with sexual orientation, transgender status, and in a number of different areas.
It’s important for employers to be aware of these discrimination laws and be upfront with their commitment to abide by those, not to discriminate based on all these different categories, including religion. That’s what the law is. That’s what’s required by the law. This needs to be made available upfront in the interview process as well that they don’t discriminate. That said, they can ask questions that can be very helpful to making sure that the employer is compatible.
For example, questions specifically dealing with the function of the job. Of course, that’s very important. Ability to do the job, that’s a given. They can also go into questions that reveal character. Many employers don’t even go in this area, but it’s so important in the long-term for any company, whether they’re Christian or not, and yet it’s legal. For example, one of the questions that I’ve used before, and of course if there’s someone reading this and they’re going to be interviewing for a position of ours, they’ve got the inside scoop.
They got the insider track.
The question I like to ask is, “If I’m in the office, I’m busy, I don’t want to be bothered, and someone comes in or calls in, do you have any problem telling them that I’m not here? Nine out of ten times, in the interview process, they will say the wrong answer. They will say, “It’s no problem. I have no problem saying that. No problem at all.” That tells me that they flunked the character question test because the proper answer is, and the professional answer is, “I can say that you’re not available, and I can take a message and have them get come back at another time,” or something like that. That’s the correct answer.
Not to say that Brad seems to have disappeared for the moment, even though I’m looking right at him.
Yeah, exactly. You say, “I’m sorry, Brad’s not available right now to take calls, but I’d be happy to take questions,” but to say, “Yeah, I have no problem saying you’re not here,” that’s a statement of character. If they’re going to lie to that potential customer, whoever that is, that vendor, then they’re also willing to lie to me or to their supervisor. That’s a very basic question.
What’s also important, though, is for the employer to be upfront about their Christianity and the Christianity of their business. This is where many employers don’t get it. They think they have to hide it in the interview process. That’s the worst thing to do. Instead, you want to be up front and say, “I want you to know we are a Christian based company. This is our mission.” Read the mission statement that’s reflective of your faith preferably, hopefully.
Employers must be upfront about Christianity in their business during the hiring process. Hiding it during an interview is the worst thing an employer can do. Share on XThis is a for-profit company you’re talking about.
This is a for-profit company.
They are there to make money there, has 500 employees. You say, “We are a Christian-based company.”
You can say, “Here’s what I mean by that.” You want to go and explain it. Say, “Here’s our mission statement.” If the mission statement’s reflected of their faith, say it. If your policies are, say it. If you have Christian music, say, “We have Christian music in this office. We have Christian verses on the wall. We have Christian policies,” right up front. You want to say, make it really clear to say, “I’m not going to ask you about your faith. That would not be appropriate.” It’s not. You’re not to ask them about their faith.
What you then say is, “However, I do want to know if you would feel comfortable though working for a company like ours.” The response is very important because, you’re not going to have many people say, “No, I wouldn’t be comfortable at all. This is a terrible company. I want to get the job so I can sue you.” They’re you’re not going to get that.
Also, with Les Machiavellian desire on the part of the interviewee, they just would love to work somewhere because they’re looking, so they’re going to give you a fairly innocuous answer.
You watch their response both verbally and their body language. For example, I’ve seen it before where they’ll say, “Yeah, no problem.” They’re shaking their head no, but they’re saying yes. Body language is very important, their posture, their frown. “Yeah, I could do that.” Hesitation, tension and stress in their voice. Not that you’re trying to say are they a Christian? That’s not the question. That legally cannot be the question, but would they feel comfortable working in for this company?
You want to be very careful, once again, that you don’t discriminate and you’re very accommodated people of different beliefs. That needs to be right up front, asking those kinds of questions and then using the pause, I think, is very valuable after that question. Use the pause so you don’t let them get off with this a quick yes or no. You want them to explain. You ask the question, they may say, “Sure, that’s no problem.”
You use the pause and that communicates to them that you want more explanation, you want more answer. If it’s not clear with a quick yes, then put them in a position to explain that. If they want to be open about their faith, that’s up to them. That’s their freedom. Make it real clear that’s not what you’re asking. That’s not required. That can be very helpful right up front to make sure you’ve got employees who do feel comfortable. There’s non-believing employees who will feel very comfortable working for a Christian company. We should never assume that non-believers would feel uncomfortable.
I would imagine that if we go to a higher level of value set for a minute, I like to say that when we woke up on Monday morning, most of the world is at work. They’re not in church, and Monday to Friday, they’re at your company. Forty hours a week, the world is mostly at work. In fact, if we try to hire everybody who’s Christian, there’s nobody to influence.
That old little ditty that we used to do as kids, “Here’s the church, here’s a steeple. Open the door, see all the people.” The fact of the matter is, we open the door now and there’s not very many people at church. It’s on the decline, but everybody’s still at work. I would love to think that our CEOs, men and women across America who are leading companies would say, “I want my business to be a vehicle that God can use.” Not just to make life happy and safe for Christians, but to be a place that we would actually maybe intentionally hire people that didn’t have the same faith as us, so that we have somebody to influence.
In a very positive, constructive, legal way. I stress legal.
In a way that would keep you from calling Pacific Justice Institute for free legal advice.
Let me just throw this out. I remember once I had someone contact us and they were saying all that they were doing, and at the end I said, “Here’s how you’re violating the law,” and yet they were so effective in evangelism with what they’re doing. I said, “Now, that said, count the cost. I’m not saying don’t do it. Count the cost because at the end of the day, while God wants us to be wise and discerning with regards to our rights in the law, we need to follow the leading of the Lord and be willing to pay the price.” That price as laws are changed down the road may become higher and higher that we may need to have to pay if we’re going to be true followers of Jesus Christ. I think that’s very important.
While God wants us to be wise and discerning with regard to our rights in the law, we need to follow the leading of the Lord and be willing to pay the price. Share on XMaintaining Compassion And Respect In A Christian Company
Let’s take a different tact on this for a second. We hired somebody who was not someone of our faith, which is fine, might be even a goal. As that employee-employer relationship progresses, they are more open about the fact that they are a very different lifestyle than ours. They begin to do things that might even offend us in our own workplace. Maybe they are part of the LGBTQ crowd or whatever they are, they are completely different than what we’re trying to espouse. What are our alternatives under the law?
Let me just first say the law is changing in this area as we speak when it comes to discrimination based on sexual orientation, same sex marriage, transgender status. Employers, I encourage them to contact us for an update. I can say, generally speaking, the first step employees need to take is to recognize is attitude. Have the proper attitude demonstrate to that employee the same unconditional love, grace, and respect that God gave us when we are nonbelievers and non followers of Christ.
God took each of us right where we were, and we need to show that love and respect and grace to them right where they are. Oftentimes, people are hurting when they’re doing things that are God’s word says they shouldn’t be doing. There’s pain, there’s consequence they’re going through that. We have hearts of grace and compassion for them in a respectful manner.
It can be really very taxing. It can be very problematic, particularly when that employee is very openly demonstrative and advocating, maybe argumentative. That’s where the employer needs to be able to step in and say, “I respect you and your personal beliefs and your perspectives, but arguing with employees about your perspective or asserting things in this matter to other employees is harassing in nature can, and I need you to cease and desist from this conduct or from saying these things to other employees that they are finding offensive and making work difficult.”
You want to be very careful with regards to this because what you say can be used against you in alleging that you are hostile, intolerant and harassing the employee. It is a very sensitive area. The employers also need to state real clearly employee review what an employee is doing that is acceptable and what they’re doing that is not acceptable. No matter how large the company or business, this is critical because if they don’t have a written record of why they’re letting go an employee, the assumption is going to be that it’s because the employee revealed that they’re a part of a protected group or a protected class. That can be very problematic.
Importance Of Getting A Marketplace Chaplain
Let’s do one more thing. There’s an organization that you and I are raving fans of. It’s Marketplace Chaplains and Corporate Chaplains. These people do incredible work, and I like to say, most org charts do not have a box on them for vice president spirituality or chief chaplain officer, or whatever we want to call it.
This role usually falls to the staff members that are the leadership. When an employee has a death in the family, a situation with a family member who’s in trouble, a depression moment, those moments of counsel usually end up at a rank-and-file person’s desk. It’s the vice president of whomever is in charge of them, the sales person, the operating person, the finance person, and we become counselor. Talk about what could be different if we had a chaplain in our organization that was paid on an outside contractor type basis.
I am 100% supportive of the concept of Marketplace Chaplains. Coming into businesses, large and small, you don’t have to be large company to have a chaplain come in. It has practical advantages because employees can be more open. They could say if the Bible study was being head up by the president of the company, the challenges and struggles they’re going through, you want them to be ministered to and to be ministered to, they need to be open.
Second is legally, it creates a healthy firewall between the ministry, ministering to the employee and the company. For example, let’s say that an employee is struggling with say same sex attraction. Let’s say that’s something they’re struggling with. They share it with the chaplain. There’s a confidentiality there. If it turns out that the employee is terminated, say two days later, for different reasons, there’s a protection there with regard to a lawsuit.
If you don’t have that firewall, instead, let’s say he shares it with the senior vice president who’s leading up the Bible study and two days later that employee is terminated, for legitimate reasons, there’s a lawsuit right there. The presumption of those who will be residing over the matter in a court of law will likely lean in favor of the employee because of the presumption.
I am able, because of the reports that I get, to know that there are thousands and thousands of visits that Marketplace Chaplains have with the 40,000-plus employees of Convene. Not all 40,000 employees that are part of Convene, CEO upline type things use Marketplace Chaplains. Even just the few that do, there’s thousands of touchpoints and they’re usually family related matters. My mother, my father, my daughter, my son, my cousin, something bad happened and it’s a place to talk.
It is so practical. It’s right there. Frankly, I don’t see any real legitimate reason why companies should not be working with Marketplace Ministries. It makes no sense to me at all. From a legal perspective, from a ministry perspective, if your company is you’ve truly given to the Lord, not just in talk, but in your heart, truly given to the Lord, this is a no-brainer for ministry and evangelism.
If you have truly given your company to the Lord, you should be working with marketplace ministries. Share on XIf you just look at it from a financial perspective, you could spend $50,000, $60,000, $70,000 on a Chief Spirituality Officer, or you could spend $5,000, $10,000 on an outsource person. As we say in California, there’s that commercial, it’s the biggest no-brainer in the history of mankind.
Also, I think it’s important to realize the breadth of ministry that comes through this. For example, you could have the Truth Project brought in through like a Bible study. They can bring in the Truth Project which brings in apologetics. You can bring in outside motivational speakers into your company. You can bring in MOPS, Mothers Of Preschoolers.
We work with a company, they’re brought in this ministry, which showed compassion for mothers who have preschoolers and yet also give opportunities to minister to them. When you bring in these outside sources, it shows compassion. That compassion increases employee morale. Employee loyalty reduces turnover. If you are an atheist and do not believe in Christianity, these are fundamental things that you should do if you simply just want to increase morale, lower turnover, and in the end, increase profits.
Thanks. There’s a little tool that we want to offer to people who are reading. We have a way for them to get it. Faith in the Workplace. A free gift from Pacific Justice Institute and us at Convene. We just would love to offer a more detailed subset of all the things we’ve talked about that people can get for free. I think we shook hands on the fact that you would be part of our Speaker Bureau. People will be seeing you on the Speaker Bureau and available to come to speak to convene groups. That’s very exciting.
Episode Wrap-Up And Closing Words
Brad, I just want to say thank you for what you’ve been doing since 1997, defending religious freedom without cost. I think that in this episode, we have helped hundreds of CEOs to understand that they actually can do more than they thought they could, not necessarily just sharing their faith overtly, but being who they really are Monday to Friday instead of putting it on disguise mode until Sunday. Thanks for coming in.
My pleasure. Thank you.
