Jim Galvin of Galvin & Associates joins Mark L. Vincent to discuss the Sabbath as it relates to the leader. The Sabbath day is not just a nice suggestion from God, it’s a commandment. How leaders choose to pursue that commandment varies, and there’s a lot of misunderstanding about what it means to have a Sabbath day. Jim helps to break down what a Sabbath day might look like for a leader, but everyone’s Sabbath experience can and should differ based on their own needs. There’s no “one size fits most” model here, it’s not a militant experience. The Sabbath is a gift that God gives you where in which you have the ability to use a day to pursue things that bring you closer to God and bring you peace. If mowing the lawn is joyful for you, mow the lawn on your Sabbath day!
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The Sabbath As It Relates To The Leader With Jim Galvin
I’ve been having a lot of fun with some interviews with people who are good at what they do and care a lot about thriving and sustaining businesses and ministry organizations. I’m particularly happy to have a conversation with Jim Galvin. Many people would say things like, “I’m happy to do this.” In this case, there’s no pretension in it.
Jim is one I have admired for a very long time. Jim is a world-class facilitator. I’ve had the opportunity to witness his leadership, his guidance, and his ability to draw people into the conversations where matters are complex and tension is high, and help them find a way through it. As Jim and I were corresponding about this particular interview, he said he thought he might like to talk about leaders and their need for a Sabbath. That sparked my antennas. They shot up. I want to talk to Jim about this. I think he’s got something to say.
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Five-Point Scale Of Observing Sabbath Day
Jim, I want to welcome you to this conversation. I’m glad that everyone who’s reading gets to learn from your wisdom and your experience. As we get started, I’d like to ask you to give us a definition of Sabbath and why it is that leaders need one.
You’re asking the question the whole wrong way. It’s not why leaders need one. They need rest. We’re talking about the Sabbath, which is 1 of the 10 Commandments. It’s a commandment to obey, first of all. Secondly, it’s a gift from God to us. It’s a gift to enjoy, so it’s not why we need one. In Proverbs, it says, “God gives riches to certain people, but not the ability to enjoy them.”
That’s what a lot of entrepreneurs and business people are facing. They’re always on 24/7, working, and checking their email. They’re plugged in and jacked in. They have the opportunity. God is giving them a Sabbath and commanding them to honor the Sabbath Day. They are going into the office after church, doing an email all weekend, and those kinds of things. That’s for starters.
You said the definition. I have a five-point scale for this. Level one, the lowest level in terms of observing a Sabbath or honoring the Sabbath Day, is you’re on 24/7. You’re on call. You’re checking emails. You’re plugged in. You’re a workaholic. That’s level one. Level two is you don’t go into the office on a weekend, but you bring work home with you and do it on Saturday morning. It could also be that you catch up on all your emails over the weekend in your free time, and you’re not having a day apart, a day of rest, or a day off from work. That’s level two. At least you’re not going into the office.
Level three is you go home on the weekend and you don’t do any work or business, but you fill the weekend with chores. You’re replanting flowers, mowing the grass, cleaning the basement, decluttering the closet, and all these kinds of things that you also want to get done. It is not a day of rest. It’s a day of doing other things. You’ve filled that day with other work or other goals.
Level four is you take a day off and relax. You don’t do any work. You don’t do any chores. Level five is a Sabbath, which is a day that you delight in the world God has created. You delight in God. You delight in the relationships and the love of the people around you. It’s a day for counting your blessings and thinking about your life.
It’s helpful for a lot of us if we completely unplug electronically. For Millennials, they’re fascinated by that. It’s like, “Don’t have your phone on. Don’t text anybody for a whole day?” It’s an intriguing topic for them and something that they are yearning for because we’re all created for this. It’s not that we need it. It’s a gift. What are you going to do with this gift? Are you going to fill it up with chores, or are you going to stop and enjoy it? That’s the definition.
Sabbath is a day for counting your blessings. Use it to think about your life and unplug electronically. Share on XWhat Attracted Jim To Practice Sabbath
You thought about this not just a lot, but you thought about it deeply. What was it that sparked you to care about it as a subject as much as you do?
I do a lot of work in Israel in a Jewish mission. I’ve been there more than 25 times. I’ve been in Jerusalem when Shabbat comes many times. A couple of years ago, I was walking down the street near Mea Shearim, which is an ultra-Orthodox neighborhood right in the heart of Jerusalem. I’m walking down the street on the more secular side, and they’re on the ultra Orthodox side, separated by a fence.
The Shabbat had already started on the seventh day. There are no cars on the streets in the area. The whole city quiets down, and this piece starts to emerge. I’m looking at the other side of the fence at these two couples. They both have strollers. They both have several kids. The kids are sitting on the double yellow line in the middle of the road, playing together, and the parents are standing in the middle of the road, talking together.
It looked so peaceful and so wonderful. I sent up a quick prayer to God and said, “God, I wish I could have some of that peace.” I then realized, “I can. I have to go home and do it, and not fill my life with a bunch of other junk and things to do, like achieving my goals, doing chores, checking email, and all those kinds of things.” I was filling it up with other things.
I have a memory that’s coming from this. It’s my grandfather with my grandmother, and my father with my mother, as we would prepare an evening meal and get ready to sit down. It wasn’t every time, but very frequently, the male, whether it be the grandfather or the father, would stand and bless his wife. They would thank her in front of the children or in front of the family, celebrate who she was, and state their value in her. I remember when I was at a Shabbat service, that was exactly what happened. Both husband and wife were singing their blessings to each other, which is a very different entrance into this way of life, right?
Yeah. You probably remember that before 1960, all the stores were closed on Sundays, so the seventh day was not as hard to do as it is now. It’s almost impossible now because everything’s open. Everything’s on. Everything’s 24/7. We’re plugged in electronically. We don’t have that natural, “Let’s go to Costco on Sunday,” or whatever.
I went home from that, having this huge realization of, “I can’t experience some of that piece that I saw.” I decided, “What am I going to do for the Sabbath? How am I going to define it? Is it going to be on Saturday or Sunday? Is it going to be 24 hours?” There are a lot of questions. No one’s teaching much stuff on this. I decided I’ll use the same Shabbat times as the Jewish people do
It was not to be legalistic or not to try to become Jewish, but as training wheels for me to help me honor the Sabbath Day. That begins at sundown on Friday evening and ends at nightfall on Saturday evening. There’s a nice rhythm to that, too, because we usually go to church on Saturday night. It’s a nice way to end a Sabbath Day.
The first time, I’m sitting on my computer and I’m going, “The Shabbat is going to start in four minutes. I still have time to check email.” I check my email, turn off the computer, and turn off the phone. Everything was quiet then, and I felt sad, lonely, and worthless. I knew something interesting was going to come out of this experiment.
I told Kathy what I was going to do as a spiritual discipline to try to understand and observe a Sabbath Day. She was not fully on board. She didn’t want to do it, which is fine, but it’s hard to do if only one person is doing it. I got up the next morning, had a cup of coffee, and I didn’t know what to do. I’m trying not to do any work. I’m not plugged in electronically.
I sat down in the living room and got a magazine. I was like, “Why don’t I read a magazine?” Kathy comes in and says, “Since you’re not doing anything, do you think you can help me with a couple of things?” I realized, “Not clear on the concept here.” I said, “Let me explain it again. Here’s what I’m trying to do. I’ll invite you with it if you want.” It’s hard to do nothing.
What A Leader Who Practices Sabbath Looks Like
Would you take a moment and paint the differences that you observe between a leader who has a Sabbath rhythm and delights in it, and one who is resisting and hasn’t opened their soul to it yet? How would you contrast those?
I work weekends as a consultant to nonprofit organizations, working with volunteer boards, so I don’t have a Sabbath rhythm. I got to pick a different day every week. During the shutdown, Friday night to Saturday night works perfectly, but I have to move that around. I don’t have this strict rhythm. For other people, you don’t have to have a strict rhythm either. For passers, this is especially hard because they can’t take Sunday as their Sabbath Day. By the time they get home on Sunday afternoon, they probably have already worked eight hours. They put in a full day. They need to pick a different day for the Sabbath. For a lot of them, Saturday works. For others, they pick a different day.
Your question was to paint a picture of how they’re different. On the outside, you might not see much difference, but there is a difference on the inside. Take a business owner, CEO, and entrepreneur. They’re working. Everything’s about working. They’re fully invested. They’re on fire for it. It’s like the children of Israel in Egypt making bricks seven days a week. Then, the Exodus comes, and they’re in the wilderness. God says, “Six days you shall labor, and the seventh day will be a Sabbath that you are to honor.”
Before, they were slaves. Now, they’re free, but slaves to God. That’s some of the contrast here. We’re slaves to our work. We’re slaves to our company. We can’t let it consume us. That day apart is turning off the internal combustion engine. It’s shutting down electronically, if that works for you. It’s stopping and saying, “Work is not my life. I have my life. I have a connection with God. I have a family.” A friend of mine says, “Connect in three ways on the Sabbath Day. Connect with nature, with God, and with people without having to work or produce anything. Enjoy the day.”
Sabbath is a day for connecting with nature, God, and people without having to work or produce anything. Share on XHow Organizations Can Integrate Sabbath Into Their Cultures
There are two words I’ve already made a deep note of out of what you said. One of them is delight. A day in which to delight, and also not to be a slave. I’m going to say freedom, to be free, and to demonstrate that you are not held by this. You’re not in bondage to this. I’m going to move us along here in the interest of time. If that’s in play, how does that show up in an organization’s culture? Do you have any way that you could give us an example of that?
To go back to delight, if you look at Isaiah 58:13-14, it says, “Keep the Sabbath Day holy. Don’t pursue your own interests on that day, but enjoy the Sabbath and speak of it with delight as the Lord’s holy day. Honor the Sabbath and everything you do that day. Don’t follow your own desires or talk idly.” Does that mean you shouldn’t do anything fun? The book, Sabbath, by Dan Allender, says this is about a day of pursuing delight in life. When someone says, “Don’t pursue your own interests,” I read that as, “Don’t pursue selfish interests. Don’t pursue business interests. Don’t pursue financial interests. Instead, delight in the Lord.”
For a company, how can this impact the culture? That’s an interesting question. I think of Chick-fil-A. They’re closed on Sundays. That’s a matter of principle from Truett Cathy when he established it because he wanted people to have a Sabbath Day, all his employees. One of the byproducts of that is that they’re able to, in each franchise, save one full-time staff position, which is $50,000 or $60,000 that goes right to the bottom line in their profit by doing this. That’s interesting. Also, if you create a culture where you tell people, “Don’t bring work home,” in Silicon Valley, it’s the exact opposite. They want you to work seven days a week.
“Be a slave. Embrace the grind.” It’s the opposite of delight and freedom.
“Get consumed in work and don’t have a life.” You could create a culture where you say, “Everyone’s going to have a weekend, whether you’re religious or not. You need to spend time with your family. Work hard, but then make sure you also get time off.” For those who are Judeo-Christian, have conversations about what the Sabbath means to you. Are you enjoying the life that God has given you, at least for one day every week?
Discovering Delight During Sabbath Day
I’m starting to see where you would take this, but what if a person is going to keep this as a delightful invitation in which to participate rather than an obligatory, begrudging, “God, how many hours do I have to give you? The time’s up. I can go back to work,” kind of thing? You made a transition as you had your own experiences. What helps it to be this delightful thing rather than something to be burdened by?
I know for me, after Saturday night, coming home from church and the sun is down, it’s like, “I can check email again,” in the beginning. Now, it’s like, “That can wait until tomorrow.” For me, I’m taking Saturday as a Sabbath Day as much as I can rather than Sunday. Sunday is fine, too. You don’t want to make this legalistic. It’s not like following rules. It’s a day of freedom, not legalism.
Can you mow your grass if it’s your Sabbath Day? Do you enjoy mowing grass? I do, so I mow the grass on Sabbath Day if I want, but I do it more slowly. I enjoy it rather than rushing through it. If you don’t like mowing the grass, don’t do it on the Sabbath. It’s the same with the church. If you like church, worship, singing, and it inspires you, make that part of your Sabbath celebration. If you don’t, don’t go to church on your Sabbath. Do it on a different day.
This is not about following rabbinic Jewish rules about the Sabbath either, like you have to unscrew the light bulb in your refrigerator, you can’t prepare a meal, you can’t draw a picture, or you can’t create anything. This is not rabbinic Judaism. One of the 10 Commandments is honoring the Sabbath. They still apply. Jesus clarified this for us, too. He clarified all the commandments. It says, “Do not kill.” Jesus said, “If you hate your brother, you’ve broken the commandment.”
Jesus said, “Do not commit adultery. If you look upon a woman, you commit adultery.” What does He say about the Sabbath? We tend to think, “That’s fulfilled by Christ. We don’t have to worry about that anymore.” What Jesus said is, “Man was not made for the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made for people. It’s a gift.” We’re still supposed to honor it.
Taking a Sabbath day is completely countercultural right now. Be ready for pushback if you try to make this a part of your life. Share on XAs you were talking about how if you’re going to mow your lawn, you should take your time, it’s almost like being in a certain place to do it. I think of somebody who once said the Sabbath rhythm is be, and then do. All of a sudden, you’re going, “Dooby, dooby, dooby, do.” It’s life, and it’s fun. It’s musical. It’s a dance. It’s this wonderful rhythm as opposed to obligation.
How To Start Practicing Sabbath Every Week
I want to ask you a final question here. If a C-Suite executive says, “I’m going to take this seriously. I want to move in this direction. I will be a better person, a better wife, a better husband, a better employer, and a better family member. I will be better.” They have a yearning to take the next step. What would be a good first next step for someone to take who’s going from all-out, never resting, or only level 2, 3, or 4, and moving into that delight?
To use business speak, calendarize it. Block it out, and then experiment. Try stuff. What sounds fun? Unplug electronically. That might not be possible. If you’re a football fan, it could mean not watching TV if Sunday is your day. It might be a little bit hard, so maybe you’ll unplug your phone, and you won’t go to the computer and check your email. You’ll watch a football game on TV. It’s whatever you enjoy or whatever’s working for you.
It might be useful to take a media fast for a couple of weeks to try it out and see what’s working for you. If you have kids and family, you have to understand that you’re coming home and deciding you’re going to have a Sabbath Day. You’re part of a system that doesn’t have that built in, so it’s going to be difficult. It’s going to cause some consternation with other people. It’s like, “Dad and Mom, how come you’re not doing what we want to do right now? How come you’re sitting around, enjoying life?”
The rest of us have to work, so be cognizant that you’re in a system already. It doesn’t have this installed. Also, realize that taking a Sabbath Day is completely counter-cultural for us. People won’t understand. They won’t like it. They’ll have expectations of you. They’re like, “How come you didn’t text me back? How come your phone wasn’t on?” Be ready for pushback if you try to make this a part of your life.
Episode Wrap-Up And Closing Words
There’s a longer conversation here. I look forward to having it with you at some point, maybe in another interview or some time when we’re in the same place again. I want to thank you for the time that you’ve invested in the Convene community by sharing this perspective and spending some time with me here. He would welcome hearing from you and talking about how this might be a better way to live and how your organizational culture could be strengthened. I hope you’ll reach out to him. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you to Jim. We’ll see you all next time.
