Greg Leith is joined by Dee Ann Turner, former VP of Talent & Sustainability with Chick-fil-A, and author of “Bet on Talent” and “It’s My Pleasure”. Together, they discuss the importance of betting on the talent of your employees to build value in your organization. There’s a reason why Chick-fil-A is the third-largest restaurant chain in the U.S.! Dee Ann is also an incredible speaker and consultant.
You can learn more & contact her here. To learn more about Convene, head here.
—
Watch the episode here
Listen to the podcast here
Betting On Talent With Dee Ann Turner
I’m excited to be with Dee Ann Turner, the former Chick-fil-A Vice President for Talent and Sustainability. Chick-fil-A is the third largest restaurant chain in America. Dee Ann is also the Author of Bet on Talent: How to Create a Remarkable Culture That Wins the Hearts of Customers. Dee Ann, welcome.
Thank you so much. It’s a big pleasure to be with you even while social distancing.
Why Everybody Says “It’s My Pleasure” At Chick-Fil-A
We are socially distancing to the max because you’re in Atlanta area and I’m in California. We’re safe. How about if we start with the question that’s on everybody’s mind. Everybody goes to Chick-fil-A that I know. Everybody loves Chick-fil-A and everybody knows what happens there, which is a great meal and somebody saying to you, “It’s my pleasure.” Where did that come from?
It’s my pleasure originated from Truett Cathy, Chick-fil-A’s founder experience with the Ritz-Carlton hotel chain. He had spent some time with Horst Schulze and he loved the way when he said thank you that the employees would say, “My pleasure.” Truett liked that so much that he came to Chick-fil-A’s annual convention. He stood up in front of all the franchisees and he told a much longer version of the story that I just told you about his Ritz-Carlton experiences. He particularly didn’t like when he went to his restaurant that sometimes the predominantly teenagers working there would use a very familiar phrase, “No, Problem.”
It’s not a problem to serve people. He thought saying, “It’s my pleasure to serve you,” was a much better response to the customers. He decided to stand in front of the entire group that day and he said, “This is what I want you to do. When your guests say thank you. I want your team members to say my pleasure.” Greg, you won’t believe this, but we went away and nothing changed. The CEO of the company had requested this of his entire organization and nothing changed. This went on for ten years. He came back every year and made the same request.
Now, you might be wondering, how can a CEO ask his company to do something for ten years and they don’t do it? You have to understand that when these franchisees went into business for Truett Cathy. They only had three rules. He was a man who created a lot of principles for people to incorporate into their business, but he didn’t create a lot of rules. His three rules when they came into business with him was, don’t open on Sunday, don’t change the menu and put the money in the bank.
When he started talking about it’s my pleasure, they thought, “That’s just a suggestion.” This went on and on for ten years. Finally, in the tenth year, he stood up in front of the whole organization and he slammed his fist down on the podium, which was very uncharacteristic for Truett. He said, “Now, I mean it. When your guests say thank you, I want your team members to say my pleasure.” He had us practice it a few times right there as a big group, thousands of people.
When we walked away, his son, Dan, who’s now the CEO of Chick-fil-A. He said, “I think dad means it.” There’s where we started using it chain wide, but here’s the key to all this. We have some smart and talented franchisees. They didn’t just take it as a rule and go back and tell their team members, “When our guests say thank you, say my pleasure. Make sure you say my pleasure every time. Be sure to stay my pleasure because Truett might come and you didn’t say my pleasure. We’ll get in trouble.” They didn’t do that at all.
They went back and taught a principle to their team members, which was this. “It is our pleasure to serve. Without these customers there wouldn’t be any paychecks. There wouldn’t be any promotions, college scholarships, team outings, parties and all of those things. The only reason we have those things is because we have customers. It’s always a pleasure to serve them.” The team members responded beautifully to their franchisees and started incorporating that. That’s why when you go to a Chick-fil-A restaurant, you just don’t get my pleasure, but you get, it’s my pleasure. There’s a big difference between those two.
Why Chick-Fil-A CEO Picks Up Trash
That’s a great story. Understanding the ethos, the why behind the statement and it makes it very robust. It’s not just a thing that people say like, “No worries or something like that.” I’ve been with Dan. You and I’ve talked about this in radio interviews. He and I walked at Biola University campus together a few times. I worked for ServiceMaster for many years and we did hospital maintenance, housekeeping, biomedical, engineering and laundry and all this stuff. I’m always picking up trash. We’re walking the Biola campus and Dan stoops down and picks up some trash.
I say to him, “You don’t have to do that. You’re not at a Chick-fil-A restaurant.” He says, “I can’t get it out of my system.” I said, “Neither can I.” We walked around the campus picking up trash for five minutes as we went from point A to point B. What’s the reason behind Dan, the CEO of the company, a multi-billion-dollar company and I think now upwards of $10 billion. Why would he pick up trash?
I can’t answer for him, but I can tell you what I observed as an employee all those years under Dan’s leadership. Everything was the principles that his father taught. It was, to be a real servant leader, you demonstrate the things you want others to do. If you had a guest come to your home, you’d want everything to be clean. You’d want your yard to be pristine, new flowers to have been planted, all the furniture dusted and the floors vacuumed and all those things.
It’s the same thing. That’s how his father looked at a restaurant and that’s how Dan looks at the restaurant too, as I’ve observed him and worked beside him in the past. We’re having guests here and we want everything to look beautiful for those guests. Not just to have great tasting food, but the entire environment to be reflected in excellence, which was our original core value of Chick-fil-A.
The Story Behind Second Mile Service Training Videos
I was talking to my son who’s a Pastor in Washington State and he worked at Chick-fil-A as many people did for quite a while. He said, “Dad, be sure to say that I loved it and I loved the second mile service training videos.” What are the second mile service training videos?
If you ask me, the one thing that I’m most proud of during my service at Chick-fil-A is what Chick-fil-A did. I would say the introduction of second mile service and here’s what was happening at the time that all this came about. Chick-fil-A was the creator of the original Chick-fil-A sandwich. Truett did that back in his original restaurant decades ago. It was the first and best Chick-fil-A sandwich according to customers but decades ago and not just the most recent time.
Decades ago, other restaurant companies started copying it. In fact, one such company called it a fried breast of chicken sandwich with two pickles slices. It wasn’t as good, but it was a little cheaper. At that time, Chick-fil-A wasn’t as well-known as it is now. People didn’t necessarily know about the original chicken sandwich. We started thinking about, “What would happen if all of a sudden everyone started copying the sandwich?” That could be done.
We decided to focus on something completely different and that was the service element. When we first started out, there were these ideas about what we want team members to do is to go the extra mile for customers. The first mile service looks like a correct order and a pleasant person to take that order and to receive it in a reasonable amount of time. The second mile service could be a competitive advantage and much like the, it’s my pleasure statement. It started out as a rule. There were a lot of rules around second mile service about how to do this.
What we realized is the team members will be constrained by the rules. What if we freed them up and said something like this, “What we want to happen is that on every visit, a guest would experience some element of second mile service? What if that was the principal?” We just let those team members like your son, go out there and serve the customers. That’s what Chick-fil-A did. What happened in response was phenomenal. The team members of that principal instead of a set of rules, were changing tires in the parking lots. They were jumping off dead batteries, going dumpster diving for discarded dental appliances and returning wallets and purses left in the restaurant to guests who were 25 miles away with all the contents intact.
The stories got bigger and bigger because when you free people up to serve the guests and you give them a principle and let them have the freedom to operate and innovate under that principle. Some amazing things happen. It makes me think of what I’m observing as a customer at Chick-fil-A. Now that I’m retired from Chick-fil-A, I have a little bit of a different perspective.
You and I were talking offline before we even started this episode. I told you how impressed I was with what I was seeing because that care, that second mile service is still being exhibited even in a crisis that we’re experiencing now. That principal hasn’t changed a bit. We have to do it a little differently. We can’t do it the same way doing it before, but they have made some adjustments that will continue to endear them and win the hearts of their customers.
Talk about the biblical underpinning of second mile service. Do you still use the video that I saw a long time ago with a Roman soldier walking down the road or was that an early iteration?
I’ve been gone from Chick-fil-A for a few years now, so I can’t answer as to whether or not they’re still using that. There’s no question that the basis of second mile service is still from Matthew 5. The story behind that is where Jesus is telling the story. That the Roman asked you to carry their pack a mile. You carry it joyfully and with a cheerful spirit a second mile. That was the basis of the principal that was taught to those team members. They did it so well that the statement became make second mile second nature.
Great Talent + Remarkable Culture = Winning The Hearts Of Customers
Let’s go ahead and talk about your book a little bit. Great talent plus creating remarkable results in winning the hearts of customers. Talk about that formula. A great talent, yes. Great culture, yes. Win the hearts of customers, yes. You don’t say better EBITDA or certain things that a lot of people are going for. You talked about winning the hearts of customers. Talk about what’s that all about in your book Bet on Talent.
I make it sound so simple but it took me about 50,000 words to explain what took place over 50 years at Chick-fil-A. It’s not nearly simple as it sounds but yet it was exactly the way Truett Cathy founded his company, ran the company and how leaders have picked up those principles and cared them on. You start with the foundation of a remarkable culture. For Chick-fil-A, that was based on their purpose.
Their very why for being, which is to glorify God by being a faithful steward of all that’s entrusted to us, to be a positive influence on all who come in contact with Chick-fil-A. That’s the foundation of a remarkable culture is a meaningful purpose. Why are we in business at all? Why are we here? That’s what the purpose is.
The foundation of a remarkable culture is a meaningful purpose. Share on XThe second element is a challenging mission. If the purpose is the why, then the mission is the what. What big goal are we trying to accomplish? For most organizations, a purpose would never change. Your why is always your why that changes you probably in a different business, but a mission changes when? When the goal is accomplished. You get a new mission and a new goal to achieve.
The third element of remarkable culture is demonstrating core values. Those are the behaviors of how we are going to live out the purpose and mission. I said demonstrate it because it’s not good enough just to have a list of core values that you post on a wall somewhere. They have to be lived out day by day. That’s where you start. You start with this foundational culture, remarkable culture, and then you’ve got to have somebody to execute that. That’s where extraordinary talent comes in.
This is a compromise that you can’t make. Some organizations like to hire people. At Chick-fil-A, we selected talent. There’s a huge difference between that. Hiring people is all about quantity. That’s just warm bodies. Who can I get to fill this shift? Who can I get to make sure we have enough people in the kitchen? How can I make sure we have enough people up front? Selecting talent is all about quality. Do I have the right people to fill the right roles to achieve what I’m trying to accomplish?
The way to go about selecting extraordinary talent is to look at three criteria. The first is character. Does this person, this candidate have the character that matches the organization? The second piece is, do they have the competency that matches the role? The third piece is, do they have the chemistry that matches the team? You take those two pieces and then you take that extraordinary talent. They have this foundation of this culture and then you add to it. You teach them principles where they can deliver amazing customer experiences just like the one we were talking about earlier about second mile service.
You don’t give them a stack of rules to be compliant to, because that’s not going to create amazing customer experiences. Teach them principles. As leaders demonstrate those principles so they know how to behave and then give them the freedom to do that, people will amaze you in the ways that they’ll win the hearts of their customers. You start with the end in mind, which is, I want to win the hearts of my customer.
If I win the heart of the customer, they’ll keep coming back again and again. They’ll bring more people with them. To do that, I’m going to create a remarkable culture that not only are my employees engaged in, but the customers themselves becoming engaged in. It’s so much a part of the organization. I’m going to select this extraordinary talent to execute those principles.
Create a remarkable culture not just for your employees but for your customers as well. Share on XThat was my twenty years of upbringing in ServiceMaster. I could have changed the name Chick-fil-A to Service Measuring and that’s exactly how I think. There’s some people who are reading who would say, “That’s all warm and fuzzy. I just want to hire people to do their job. I don’t want to get to know them. I don’t know the name of their kid. Sometimes, I forget the name of their spouse. I don’t want to go to dinner with them too many times because I would get too close to them, in case I had to fire them. I couldn’t fire them if I’m too close to them. This whole interpersonal thing scares me. People are supposed to get their job done.” What would you say to that person?
First of all, I’d say that sounds pretty miserable. I don’t know about you but now that I own my own business. I certainly wouldn’t want to operate a business like that because it wouldn’t be very much fun. I can’t imagine that I would be very successful. Those are short-term visions and you can generate a lot of money. You could take that approach, all heads down and drive and drive. In a tough economy where jobs aren’t plentiful, people would sign up for that.
They might go along for a certain period of time, but I don’t think it’s sustainable. What you experienced at ServiceMaster and what I experienced at Chick-fil-A, those are sustainable business models that have gone on for decades upon decades. That’s the big difference. You could exhaust a system and charge through and not have those relationships. That’s a very short-term view and it doesn’t lead to long-term success.
Let’s talk about the other side of the coin, somebody who gets too in mesh with the person that reports to them. Always taking them and their spouse out for dinner and loving on them but they’re not performing. They’re afraid to fire them because they’ll hurt their feelings.
That’s a risk, but a truly remarkable culture while going out to dinner together and doing those things can be a part of it. Living life together, as we used to call it Chick-fil-A. There’s another important part of a remarkable culture. In remarkable cultures, leaders hold their teams accountable and the individuals accountable. Accountability is part of a remarkable culture. Those items can become separate. This is the environment we had. We love each other, if I can use that word. We treat each other with honor, dignity and respect, but part of loving people and treating them with honor, dignity and respect is not just the time we spend together.
It’s creating goals, expectations and holding them accountable to those so that they can feel successful because that’s an important part of remarkable culture as well. That’s how you guard against what you’re talking about. You create clear expectations and hold people accountable while you’re doing all the fun stuff too.
Navigating The Challenges Of A Big Economic Downturn
We are in the midst of a big economic downturn. Somebody might read this 5 or 10 years from now and say, “What was that?” We know now we’re in a big economic downturn of 2020 due to some virus issues that are gigantic. Talk to the person who’s had to lay off people because their revenue went to zero. Maybe they were a restaurant, a catering company, or a movie theater but they’ve had to lay off everybody. They’ve burned through their two months of cash reserves. They got their money from the government. It didn’t last too long and they have to say goodbye to 50 people. As they head out to do that, what would you say to them?
That’s such a tough question. I have to be honest with you, Greg. I’ve never been in that position. I worked for Chick-fil-A for several years and I never had to lay anybody off. I can only imagine how difficult that would be. As a small business owner, this took place. I didn’t have to like people off, but I did have to in some of my contracts with some of my suppliers. My business has come to a halt. One of the things that I do is speak about 50 times a year and needless to say public speaking hasn’t been in demand and won’t be for a little while given our current circumstances.
You cannot solve everything, but you can definitely solve some things. Share on XAs I’m adjusting to what my business looks like in the future. I had to stop some of my monthly expenses which impacted other people. What we want to do is this is an opportunity to be incredibly kind and not just think about ourselves from we’re the one making that decision, but truly think about the other person. Sometimes, we get wrapped up like, “I got to go do this.” You got to go do it but put yourself in the person who’s going to receive it.
If there’s anything at all you can do to help somebody that you’re laying off. Whether it’s just giving them a letter of recommendation or connecting them to other people you’re connected to. Those small acts of kindness. You can’t necessarily give them another job. You can’t promise them anything but if you can just make some small acts of kindness to help them move on to the next thing they’re going to do. That would be incredible.
Surviving The Current Season And Preparing For The Next
Let’s switch gears. Somebody owns a pizza shop or an exercise equipment that you buy and put in your house. Their business is going through the roof. Some of them might be saying, “I just need a warm body, two arms, two legs to get the job done. No time to train you. Let’s get going.” What would you say to that person on how to hire somebody right on that first day?
I am seeing that happen. I see the advertisements from the grocery stores and as you said, the delivery restaurants. They’re just saying, “Come interview now. You’ll start tomorrow.” There are seasons and I believe, a place of survival. If I had been talking with you in early February, and you are one of my clients. I was talking to people that couldn’t find anybody to work for them. They were just in that same situation. What I said to them is, “You’re in a period of survival. For now, you have to get through this.” You have to have people in place, but cycles are going to change.
I did not intend to be prophetic and I’m sorry it happened as quickly as I had said that after the first of February but cycles change. While you’re surviving this season, you need to be focused on what the next season looks like and be planning for that. You need to be putting in those pieces that say, “I’ve got to have somebody to deliver a pizza,” but this is going to change eventually. When it does, I want a selection process that ensures that I’m selecting people with the character that matches this organization.
The character of my employees creates the sum total of my culture. It is set a different way. My culture is the sum total of the character of my employees. I want to be sure that the people that I’m selecting for the future have the competency for the job and have all the skills and abilities and have the chemistry to match the team. Sometimes people can’t. It is impossible in certain circumstances to check every one of those boxes. Do the best that you can, but start planning on how you’re going to do it differently moving forward and don’t get stuck in that routine that you continue to do from now on.
Do not allow distance to make you do less of anything. Take advantage of it to do more than you would normally do in leading people. Share on XI love this story of the service profit chain from Harvard. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it, but knowing that if I hire somebody and say, “Hurry up and deliver the pizza. Here’s the uniform from the last guy. Sorry, it’s the wrong size and we didn’t get a chance to wash it, but love on customers.” We just send a mixed message, “I don’t care about you. I just gave you a dirty shirt from the last guy but I want you to care for our customers.” I’m sure at Chick-fil-A, you didn’t give somebody the uniform from the last guy and tell them, “Go home and wash it,” and stuff like that.
I’m also a big believer in situations like this. Here’s something else you can do when leading in a crisis. You can’t solve everything, but you can solve some things. If you can pick one thing, it’s like, I don’t know that I can select for this character competency chemistry thing right at the moment. I need this to be accomplished, but I’m going to do this one thing for my employees. I’m going to hold this one expectation of how they’re going to treat guests. If you can incorporate one thing and then when you have that in, get to the next thing.
Over-Communicate And Over-Connect During Remote Work
That’s another way you can walk your way through a survival method, not a survival period. Let’s talk about one other scenario that’s happening. Here we are remotely but some people have 100 employees who are all working remotely. What advice would you have for them when there’s less high touch than as per normal?
My recommendation is to overdo everything, over communicate, over connect and give more feedback than you normally do, but stay connected with people. Over meet if you have to. These Zoom meetings, I’m loving what I’m seeing of all these organizations and how they’re getting together. Different cultures do different things. I was watching this one company and they had a dress up day. They all dressed up as a different character for their meeting. You would never do that at work in your office building. It’s fun that you can do something different, but that’s the most important thing. Don’t allow the distance to do less of anything. It’s going to require you to do more of just about everything that you would normally do in leading people.
Get In Touch With Dee Ann And Buy Her Book
You have a new book. I think you said you landed the title coming out from Baker, Crush Your Career. Give us the whole title.
Crush Your Career: Ace the Interview, Land the Job, and Launch Your Future. It’s a flip and Bet on Talent. I talked to leaders about growing their cultures, their talent and winning the hearts of customers. In Crushed Your Career, I’m talking to those potential extraordinary talents for those organizations about how to do that. It is the life cycle of your career. It starts from looking for part-time jobs all the way through to talking about retirement. It’s for people who are getting their first job or transitioning and all the people who coached them. Whether their parents or career counselors or leaders in business and others. I’m excited.
We’ll probably be able to be together by that, I’m sure.
I’m looking forward to that and, hopefully, in October in Chicago is what I’m hoping for.
In October, Chicago, we’ll be seeing Dee Ann in person unless the coronavirus does something strange that we’re not expecting. That’ll be an exciting time. If somebody wants to check out your website, where would they go?
Please go to DeeAnnTurner.com. You can also find me by the same name at LinkedIn and Facebook at Dee Ann Turner, Author and on Instagram @DeeAnnTurner.
That’s exciting. It’s been great to be with you, Dee Ann Turner, the former Vice President for Talent and Sustainability at Chick-fil-A, author of the bestselling book Bet on Talent. Thanks so much for being with us at Convene from our homes in Atlanta, and California.
Thank you, Greg. It was my pleasure.
